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You can lose at spectator because spectator cheats.

But really, I don't want to continue the 'debate'. I've had similar ones over and over and over and it rarely if ever accomplishes anything - I've had maybe one time where I've gotten the other party to actually look at it objectively from my side, in which case they've been convinced, but I go into it having already looked at both sides objectively in the past, and believe what I do because it's the position I find to be best supported by the facts.

Midboss wrote:You can lose at spectator because spectator cheats.

But really, I don't want to continue the 'debate'. I've had similar ones over and over and over and it rarely if ever accomplishes anything - I've had maybe one time where I've gotten the other party to actually look at it objectively from my side, in which case they've been convinced, but I go into it having already looked at both sides objectively in the past, and believe what I do because it's the position I find to be best supported by the facts.

I think the same way. Its simply that neither of us have the facts the other has. Thats why we have come to disagreement.
The exchangeing of facts in order to convince another or to become convinced is what a debate is truely about, and your good at useing hard evidence to back up your claims so I dont want this arguement to die out just yet. Its too fun.

By the end of this one of us will be convinced.

That is unless you don't want to debate. But honistly even if you dont I'll still reply to it properly tommorrow.